I can definitely agree with that.

Yes, we’be clearly returned to the beginning, as at this point we seem to both just be restating our claims rather than actually arguing them. But it’s been a fun debate.

Ohhhh okay wow

Right.

And I believe that if just about every minority person and the majority of white people think the flag is offense; tell you it is–if you decide that is not, you are ignoring the reality that it is offensive. That ability to turn a blind eye toward toward perceived symbols of bigotry and racism is in and of itself, racist. You are ignoring the global consensus of the definition of the symbol as racist. You are fighting the norm that the flag is racist. You are holding to a belief that something important to you is racist. That shrugging go the shoulders to hold what is important to you over the value of the nation and majority to support what we all think is racist…makes you racist.

I think we are back to the beginning of our conversation, so we will have to agree to disagree.

I think I’ve said before, that it is fine to fly the flag, just don’t be surprised or offended when someone calls that person racist for doing so. Why, because EVERYONE thinks that the person is racist. That is what the norms classifies the person as no matter how much they fight the good fight to prove they are not.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Curtis does nothing for me. The guy can suck dick really well, though.

Don’t coddle the delusion. Just don’t automatically condemn the person holding it, either. That’s all I’m saying here.

The issue is that (some) white people can’t see the forest for the trees when it comes to discussing race and racism. So much time and effort is spent on creating a narrative around personal attacks, when most discussions of this nature should be more focused on the societal impacts of racist imagery.

White supremacy is so engrained in some people that they refuse to separate themselves from it’s power. I don’t think that coddling people’s delusions is the way to wake them up to the reality of racism.

Again, I have no interest in reclassifying the flag as something noble. But this didn’t start as a debate about whether the flag has value, it started as a debate over whether it’s reasonable to call a person racist because they’re stuck on the notion that the flag means something innocuous. (Or perhaps more accurately whether you can automatically assume that anyone who holds up the flag and says it’s because they’re proud to be from the south is actually just prejudiced towards minorities).

It’s not a huge leap of logic, no. But even you put the word “might” in there.

To be clear, I neither enjoy nor defend the Confederate flag, and I understand the legacy it invokes and (though I’m sure not as well as you) the harm it does as a result. But this is much like the argument I have with other gay people about how best to handle homophobic Christians, and in a broader sense similar to a lot of what I see wrong with social and political discourse in this country. There’s a tendency to demonize the people we disagree with, particularly in these cases of prejudice and discrimination where one side is quite clearly wrong. But as justified as the anger and hurt can be in these cases, it often does more harm than good. Most people want to be good, but we all struggle, some more than others. Forgiving the misguided isn’t easy, empathizing with them even harder, and neither is fairly asked of those who are wronged, but I do believe we are better for it all the same.

The confederate flag was created as a symbol to defend the values and principles of the south. The svastika had roots in Buddhism and Judaism prior to it’s more popular use in Germany. Allowing those to use the svastika for that historical positive use is different than what the flag was created for.

I think we can not and should not reclassify the meaning of the flag for the reason that I mentioned earlier about the revisionist history America is so popular for pushing. The Confederacy was a blight on the history of this nation–there was nothing good about their decision to attack America. To ignore that to allow some to make that war a positive experience serving as some sort of symbol of pride degrades the lesson we learned from the Civil War.

If you enjoy and defend your enjoyment of a hateful and racist representation of white supremacy…ya might be a tad racist. It isn’t such a leap of logic.

One doesn’t have to wear a hood to be a white supremacist. By envoking the symbols of those that wore hoods (it was the KKK that popularized the incarnation of the “rebel” flag used by modern day good-ol boys) people are reinforcing the legitimacy of that legacy of terror, violence, and theft that has been brought down upon black peoples and our bodies.

Thank you. Your original comment made me want to contribute to the conversation. I’m glad someone else has a bit of sense in these comment threads.

Fortunately, such benign ignorance doesn’t contribute to a legacy of hate and evil like the so-called ignorant confederate flag defenders.

Actually there are people on the world who hold the swastika and are not generally branded racist for doing so, as they still recognize the symbol for what it meant before the Nazis appropriated it. They are at times held accountable for using it insensitively, but in my experience few if any people who bother to understand the situation continue to insist that they are racists. This is because we take their understanding of the symbol into account.

I argue we should do the same for people who cling to the flag, and obviously you beg to differ. To that I can only ask: Why? You seem to agree that classifying everyone who approves of the flag regardless of their intended meaning is counterproductive. So what is the use of insisting on doing so? The point of language is ultimately to communicate ideas and improve our understanding of one another. Why insist on defining a word in a way that serves to reduce understanding in an area that sorely needs it?

I agree that it will not repair their racist ideal being mean or dismissive and not being respectful of them as a person. That is not what I was addressing though. I was talking about why someone who holds to the ideals of a racist past, is themselves a racist. We can discuss how to change those minds and ideals in another chapter.

This flag thing is ridiculous. Americans have a difficult time accepting when we fuck up. Be it today in Iraq or slavery–we fucked up. Therefore, we try to capture these moments of glory in those failures and worship them as the reality of the situation–that is the argument of those who love that flag. “It wasn’t all bad”. It was fucking bad….and not only the slavery part. They attacked the United States! They decided they didn’t like the laws and instead of using the political processes in place, they started a war. That would be like Texas attacking the county because they don’t like the legalization of gay marriage and they decided to finely push pack on the laws from the federal government.

The confederate flag is no different from wearing the svastika–that does not fly anywhere in the world without the person wearing it being branded a racist. It is the same situation.

Ha, no.

Do you watch a lot of straight porn?

I think Straight porn pulls as many if not more tricks of the trade than gay studios do. The editing, short scenes, influx of lesbian activity in their straight scenes to give the guy time to chill. I could go on.

Shortly before they released his scene and they were teasing us about the comeback of one Sean Cody most popular model i checked out his employers website and he was no longer listed as one of their personal trainers. Someone on this blog said he was fired because of his porn past or because they found out about him filming his “comeback” scene. I checked out his fb about two weeks ago and he posted that was starting a new job.
If the reason for his firing is true then i don’t think he will risk getting fired again.

I don’t know how Curtis isn’t cute? You either have impossible standards or we’re on two different wavelengths when it comes to what is attractive. Probably the latter, but I think Curtis is pretty damn hot.

Agreed. I can’t believe this picture is still up. Where in the hell is the moderation for these comments? I know that things like this really get under the skin of some performers and it gives the rest of us fans a bad reputation.