Last I saw, the “black church”, doesn’t vote as a block to prohibit same-sex adoption, marriage, or equal treatment under the law.

The “both sides” argument is trash and always has been.

McCain started speaking out before he got sick.

And if I recall, you were presented with facts on multiple occasions before you changed. It wasn’t a quick turnaround.

Stereotyping people based on what you think you know about them because of their identification isn’t cool. People are more than how they identify. But if everyone wants to think being labeled a (insert description here) means you’re automatically evil and beyond hope and redemption, it’s whatever. I’m not doing it.

If people had consistently told McCain he was evil for being a Republican, would he have changed his ideology? If people had done the same to you for your previous thoughts regarding racial issues, would you have changed yours? He changed. You changed. And outright hatred and rage isn’t why either of those changes took place.

Exactly. Me at 18yo was a fucking mess…I am certainly not that person anymore, mostly for the reasons you pointed out. As products of social constructs, we hold ideas taught and shown to us. It isn’t until those ideas are challenged in front of us that we are forced to even consider change. Most people choose not to change. Humans are conservative in their actions and ideas. We like things the way they are…even if they aren’t great for us. It feels comfortable. It’s the reason that evolution is so slow.

Anyway….you and I can go on forever about this stuff I’m sure.

Why do you insist on being rude and misinterpreting comments? I didn’t ask anyone to be pro anything. I stated demonizing people who don’t agree with you solves nothing. All Republicans aren’t evil just like all Democrats aren’t good. It’s not okay to denigrate someone just because they have different politics, a different ethnicity, gender, sexuality, religion or whatever. Treat people how they treat you, not how they identify. It’s that simple.

I don’t need you to mansplain anything, thanks. And the idea that because an opinion isn’t popular it needs to be silenced is dangerous. Insisting it’s okay to hate people who are different is also dangerous.

And yes, you misinterpreted things I wrote. You stated I was making excuses for Kanye’s behavior. I wasn’t. You’re acting like I’m telling people to be pro Republican. I haven’t.

I know where I am. I’ve been here for several years. I have no problem disagreeing with people without being rude or dismissive. I responded to something another poster wrote, then you initiated an additional comment. A rather lengthy comment. But then when the conversation continues, you want to turn around and say it’s long and nauseating. Okay. I, like you and anyone else here, have my own thoughts, opinions and experiences. Being part of this community doesn’t mean we have to have a hive mind. And anyone who thinks that has problems.

I’m just explaining to you that your posts about this topic probably aren’t going to get a lot of mileage here. Do you think there are any people like you on the The_Donald subreddit talking about how great democrats are IRL and how they wish everyone would get along and sing “cumbaya” around the campfire? NOT!

*I* misinterpret comments? ORLY? Did you not see that part where I said I had Republican friends and family? I will be friends with just about anyone that wants to be my friend.

There are a lot of things I like about this forum. There are a lot of people I like here. But there are also a number of insane, hostile trolls. This is a place where people, not to mention entire websites catering to the gay public, are accused of being “homophobic” and “racist” with great frequency, not to mention the sheer amount of rank speculation that goes on here. This is also a place where some view straight sex as borderline evil.

My point is, if you came here for a polite, rational discussion about politics with people representing a broad range of views, you have probably come to the wrong place.

I think part of the problem is humans as a whole are pretty stubborn and selfish. We want what we want, and if you don’t share those wants, there’s something wrong with you. We don’t find common ground with people who aren’t like us because we don’t want to. And it’s easier to put yourself in a position where you’re not going to open a dialogue with someone when you’ve already established they are your enemy and you will always be at odds with them. I get why people feel that way, because that communication can be draining and feel fruitless. But you can’t fight hate with hate, and villainizing people for the things they believe only reinforces those beliefs. I’m sure a lot of people on this site have changed the way they view certain social issues. Sometimes that comes with a changed environment, or age or getting to know someone who represents that issue. So if we’ve all been there and shifted our views, I don’t see why it’s so hard to believe others can have that same experience.

This discussion is getting too long and nauseating. Look, you two need to realize that you probably aren’t going to find a lot of pro-Republican posts on a forum about gay pornography. If Republicans had it their way, homosexuality as well as pornography altogether would be extinct. Oh, but we are the bad guys because we take issue with that.

What the hell ever.

Oh, Scrapple, my WB bestie. You know I agree with you most of the time–today is no different.

I don’t get the over demonizing of Republicans, conservatives or Tumpers. I get challenging them and pushing back on their direction for the country. I do not agree with them on 99 percent of their policies, but I hate this society that we have created where politics have become a sporting event…are you a Pat’s or Eagles fan? Politics and people are so much more complicated than that. There are tons of my fellow Democrats who I find appalling. The “black church” has been a regular opponent to gay rights, but they are all staunch Democrats. I don’t see the pitchforks from liberals coming for them the way they do for white christian evangelicals.

Poor undereducated white men are freaked the fuck out–welcome to the world with the rest of people I say to them. They are feeling the leveling of the playing field and the loss of their privilege. And those same men who are gay, are happy to place their sexuality to the wayside to manage their loss.

They say that’s what true love is. LOL!

I totally feel you on that. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve seen people who are beautiful on the inside and out dating people who are ugly both on the inside and out. Sometimes I feel it was written into the law or something.

A good deal of politicians are evil and/or self-serving. I don’t automatically look at a Republican politician and think “S/he’s out to get me” and then look at a Democratic politician and think “S/he’s here to help me.” In the grand scheme of things that designation has no bearing on what type of person you are. It doesn’t even have a bearing on how those politicians vote. How many times have those people gone against their own parties with their statements or their votes? Happens all the time. Look at what happened with Kavanaugh’s nomination. One Democrat voted yes and a Republican would’ve voted no, but used a “present” vote to not tip the scale, because of another Republican voter who wasn’t there. Look at McCain. He went from running for President as a Republican to calling out his own Party, especially Trump. He didn’t even want any of that family at his funeral. Look at Obama and Bush. They’re almost besties. If Bush is evil then the Obamas are evil by association.

Having fans doesn’t mean you love yourself. Have money doesn’t mean you’re happy. Being a celebrity doesn’t make childhood or adulthood hurts and disappointments go away. What I saw during that conference was more than potstirring. He’s not well.

I’ve cared about the deaths of people I haven’t met personally. We all have, at some point. Even if that death didn’t matter to you or to me, it mattered to someone. Whether it’s a stranger or a loved one, death isn’t just something you shrug off. At least it shouldn’t be.

I think you’re misunderstanding what I posted. I’m not in the business of changing anyone’s mind. People change because they want to change. They either do or they don’t. I don’t live my life trying to make people see my POV, or wagging my finger when they don’t. I speak my mind, I fight my battles and I go about my business. I can’t let someone else’s choices determine how I interact with people or how I view people who don’t agree with me. I’m a Black man in America. I fuck men. If I spent all of my energy ready to go to war with everyone who hates one or both of those aspects of my identity, I’d never accomplish anything. Hating people accomplishes nothing other than turning you into the thing you’re hating. Treat people how you want to be treated. Judge people by their deeds, not their identifications. And when people prove themselves to be stubborn, or intentionally ignorant, or bigoted, or whatever, leave them to whatever nonsense they’ve created their world to be. We all need fixing, but life is way too short to spend it letting someone else’s brokenness break you.

I think you’re trying to make Kanye out to be some sort of combination of loner/nerdy teenager with no friends in high school. This man (for reasons I cannot understand) has millions of fans. He doesn’t need any more acceptance. Again, as I stated earlier, he doesn’t need to do this. The only reason he is doing this is so that he can stir the pot some more, because that’s what potstirrers enjoy doing. And get some more attention in the process.

I didn’t wish death on the people I mentioned. I merely stated I couldn’t care less if they did die. And that is the truth. I don’t care. I haven’t met any of them personally so their death wouldn’t affect me.

And on that note, that is all I am saying about Kanye. He is not an important enough figure in my world for me to continue talking about him.

I’m not mad at you because it sounds like you have good intentions, but I think you are mostly wasting your time. We live in a society where changing one’s mind or expressing uncertainty is a sign of weakness, so that’s why most people never do it. People would rather defend their actions til the day they die (even when their mistakes are constantly shoved in their face) rather than admit they were wrong. I used to frequent a true crime board. I would generally take the facts of the case, analyze them in my mind, and then form the likeliest conclusion. I would constantly find myself at odds with posters whose theories ranged from the highly improbable to the nearly impossible to conspiracy theories. No matter how many facts, logic and what have you you would throw at these people, they would stick to their batshit crazy theories because they were convinced *they* were correct and the other side was lying/mistaken. And then one day, it all made *sense*, in a way. These same people would go on and write about how the Clinton Body Count was real, and that Bill, Hillary and their assorted relatives were responsible for killing dozens, maybe hundreds of people. The people that believe this are beyond help. They are too far gone. They believe gays are evil because God said so. You can tell them that they didn’t personally hear that God said that, or prove that He even exists, or has ever existed. You can tell them that all day. But it won’t do any good.

Personally, I don’t understand it. It doesn’t bother me at all to admit when I have been wrong and/or apologize. I apologized to someone here on WB just a few days ago. When Pascal (I think that’s what his name is) pretty much proved me wrong on something, I actually admitted it publicly. It doesn’t bother me at all. But for some reason, a lot of people believe that if you are wrong and admit it or you change your mind, you’re a coward.