I like you too, this is not a war, it is a conversation.

That said, you still don’t get it. The feelings of commenters “here” are important even if no one else in the world feels that way. That’s how feelings work. Janet Mock’s comments apply to this exact example where you seem to have assigned yourself the role of detective to police if the feelings of board posters is valid. You can’t do that bud.

As to you comments about SC’s intent, you should re-read my 1st comment about “othering”. It’s weird to “announce” when there is a black performer like they have a special guest star appearance today. When they do not say, “Vanilla hunk Jax is back today.” If they did that, then hey, it’s all equal to point out race. But you can’t just start flagging black models like they’re different or exotic.

I assume you still may not understand my point, but I will end the conversation here. If you still really do want to understand what everyone is explaining to you, read my comments again with a blank mind, not asking questions, but read them as fact and move on.

I like you and do not want to be at war with you. Janet Mock taught me a few years ago that us White Folks who are firm supporters of racial justice and of much needed social mending need to stop pretending to ourselves that we can fully understand the emotional and mental impact of racism upon those who were and are effected by it daily, whose psyche becomes shaped by it. We need to accept that we can’t fully understand and not think that we possibly can, and then go on from there. Otherwise, we can be an annoyance and do more harm than good. The other side of this is that those who have had to endure racism need to keep in mind that those who have not can never fully understand and therefore not get frustrated or angry or vindictive because we can’t do what we can’t do. We can listen and inwardly connect with those circumstances in our own lives, past or present, that can help increase our empathy, but we can’t fully understand on a visceral level. That is the simple truth that we must move on with. So how do we move on…together? The effects of racism will NEVER end if we do not work that out. What I needed to do is seek for whether the displeasure voiced HERE about the word Ebony is an issue beyond HERE. I NEEDED to know if is a personal issue or a broader issue. If it is a broader issue I did not want to be ignorant about that. I can not find that it is any sort of an issue beyond HERE. Ebony magazine caused both the appreciation of, and the ownership of that word by the Black Community and I see that as a fact being treated as an Inconvenient Truth HERE.

As to the Mayor Pete thing: SC did not MOCK Chris by referring to him as an Ebony Hunk, unless we are to think SC sees him as “ugly…Phallic Head…Mega Mind,” and called him a hunk sarcastically. He is so sweetly cute to me that I can’t imagine that being the scenario. The word Ebony identified the performer named Chris as the man with the brown skin. Because of EBONY magazine that word is all inclusive of every shade of brown skin, from Halle Berry to Viola Davis. If the performer named Chris is identified as being the man with the brown skin, that then means the other man, Frankie, is the White guy. So, what SC basically did was announce: “hey guys! We have an INTERRACIAL scene for you and this is who is who.” To see it otherwise is perhaps the difference between someone who has lived with racism pressing upon him and someone who has not. Those who personally KNOW racism seem to sometimes look suspiciously at things through that lens only, and decide that is that. I see most situations as having complexities to them, with the tentacles of racism definitely there throughout almost the entirety of our social structure to varying degrees, but I want to get all the facts and consider varying possibilities and decide upon probable INTENT.

Amen and thank you, CA! Not to mention that not one of the Black writers or politicians he has decided are (in his opinion) “intelligent” and “trustworthy” share his opinion that Black people are just being overly sensitive and should focus on bigger issues. Which one of the thinkers he has named has said a Confederate flag tattoo could mean anything and Black people should be more receptive to how white people feel about the flag? Which one of them has said that black people are not excluded from or fetishized in entertainment (including porn)?

I await receipts.

I mean, if he really takes his marching orders from them, then he should have conceded that SC was wrong to inflict a model wearing a Confederate tattoo on subscribers. And if he wonders why there isn’t public outcry against the term “Ebony hunk” off of this board, that’s because the term isn’t being thrown around in public by white organizations. But he lervs SC and can’t acknowledge that sometimes they are flat-out wrong and it isn’t just something people here are imagining. He honestly thinks he knows so much that he should inform the rest of us about who the smart Blacks are.

I mean, we are all entitled to our opinion, but we aren’t entitled to say that Elijah Cummings, Maxine Waters, and Ta-Nehisi Coates would agree with a position that contradicts words we actually have of theirs. (And my sense is that if he ever discovered instances in which they disagreed with what he pretends they believe, he’d drop them from the category of intelligent and trustworthy blacks to where he has put Scrapple and me).

Besides, everyone’s opinions are subject to being checked, even if someone famous or well-respected co-signed them.

And I forgot to add: Overseer offered a nasty comment about disabled people, suggesting that–because I corrected his numerous, mistaken posts–I must be wheelchair-bound and have no life. I can only assume if he think I spend too much time on WB but he doesn’t, there are no mirrors in his house. And he displayed no understanding of people with disabilities either. Just being nasty. No humility.

If you just want to be right on this topic, then I can not convince you otherwise. You are 100 percent not listening, you are defending yourself and that feels more important to you than learning something.

While you can list every important modern thinker on the subject of race in America, they do not speak for every person in their community. Therefore, they can not be your rationale for pushing back on a marginalized persons feels and question why they feel some kinda way about race topics.

YOU DO NOT GET TO HAVE AN OPINION ON HOW A BROWN PERSON SHOULD FEEL ABOUT RACE ISSUES AND WHAT WORDS THEY INDIVIDUALLY FIND OFFENSIVE.

That is not up for debate. You can discuss race in America. You can discuss many of the ideas you’ve listed, but you can’t then insert, that you don’t think particular words or ideas should be offensive.

Straight people can discuss issues surrounding gay men and I am there for the conversation, but if some straight 20 year old kid tells me that I can’t be offended by him flippantly calling his fraternity brother “gay” as a way of mocking him…then I am going to have a problem. I don’t care if Mayor Pete comes out tomorrow and says, he’s not offended by the comment of the 20 year old, because I am not Mayor Pete and I am offended.

That sir, is the example of why you have a problem in your rhetoric on this topic. You should stay in your lane while defending SC models by attacking those who make fun of models head sizes, but you’re out of line to defend words interpreted as offensive.

And this is how he treats and talks to people after almost dying not that long ago. Amazing how some people choose to live after being given a second chance.

I still don’t get how someone who goes on about a documentary about Reconstruction doesn’t take issue with people walking around with tats of the confederate flag. The whole ebony thing is absolutely ridiculous. I challenge anyone reading this who may think otherwise to spend a single day calling every non-White person they come in contact with “ebony ____” and see how that goes over. But what do you expect from someone who still thinks Asher is both Black and dark-skinned?

I must’ve missed that vacuum comment. Now, I’m not going to say a White person telling a person of color to “go vacuum” during a conversation about race is sketchy. But, don’t think I didn’t notice that for all of his “I Know Black People!” talk, he still chose to end his post to you with a gif of a monkey. No need to wonder why…

Still not reading your posts, ever again, now that I know your GAME, which is a very similar game as someone else I’ve come to know. You want to argue, debate and squabble NEVER ENDINGLY for, apparently, you have nothing else going on in your life. I feel badly for you about that but I will assume no responsibility of you and will not take the time to keep you entertained. Go vacuum your apartment, like I am about to do. I felt the need to reply to CA but I feel absolutely NO NEED to even read you. You, on the other hand, seem to can’t wait until I write something else. Are you wheelchair bound, alone and bored? I wrote exactly what I wanted to say to CA to express my position and it took me more time than I wanted to take because of my lack of mental agility. Words do not just easily flow from me. I tend to ramble. It takes me time to search for what may be my truth at the time, and then search for the exact words and wording that I want to use to be as concise as I can be. What I wrote speaks for its self and needs no addendum. So UNLESS YOU PLAN ON PAYING MY RENT I owe you no explanation or defense of myself.

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/075230b080247d4381d6f7cd23502b9dcf1f23739f8e691c3fa7050bf330df9e.gif

And I fear he isn’t that well-read either. Nor is any other member of his brigade. If they do read, they read very selectively to confirm their position that they, personally, are not responsible for anything–that they have the right feelings and are not as bad as Trump and his supporters. That’s good, of course. But forgive us if we don’t rename Dr. King’s Holiday for you because you watch “highly rated movie[s] dealing with Brown History.”

It’s funny. No one would be attacking this person’s stance on racism if he didn’t decide he needed to lecture us on possible not-racist meanings of the Confederate flag, or the made-up fact that Black people have been renamed the Ebony Community after Ebony Magazine. Or any of the other numerous errors and offenses that you (and I) have listed.

That’s why I call them Overseers. They think they occupy the high ground and see things clearly and objectively. And if we say, “Hey, you’re late to the party and you’re calling people the wrong names,” they say “you should be honored that I am here.”

And if they overhear a conversation they don’t like, they tell us we are delusional and should get back to work–“go vacuum,” in this case. And we’re like:”It’s our party and our conversation. You may leave if you like.”

I just have to laugh at someone with close to 5000 posts telling me (with less than 200) that I spend too much time on this site commenting and need to “go vacuum.”

Can we start, “Yes, Mr. Overseer” as a counterpart to “ok boomer”?

FYI: We don’t call ourselves the Brown community or the Ebony community.

The only reason I point out your errors is because I have been hoping that you’d realize that you are really often wrong about these things. So instead of launching into a defense–or worse–an educational lecture on Ebony Magazine or your favorite Congresspeople or TV programming, you might realize that the people that you are arguing with know more about this particular topic than you do.

I trust your knowledge on hairdressing, but your knowledge on American racism is thin enough that you should say far less on the topic than you do. Or, at the very least, you shouldn’t take the tone of informing Black people about how to live in and analyze a racist society. We already know. Whereas you don’t even know who sang “Ebony and Ivory” or what we call ourselves. Stand down. We got this.

Thank you, again. It takes a huge ego to tell a specific group of people “Your opinion is invalid, because I know your history better than you do from the books I’ve read and the names I drop, therefore your concerns are meaningless.” Nobody has to be an ally to an oppressed, marginalized or misrepresented group (which if you’re part of the non-hetero community, you have or will be in this camp at some point). But if you are going to wave that ally flag, your actions have to match your words. You’re not an ally to the Black community if you throw out racial slurs. You’re not an ally if you refer to every non-White person as having “dark” skin. You’re not an ally if you make jokes and excuses about people walking around with hate symbols tatted on their body. You’re not an ally if you think consistently identifying non-White people by their ethnicity or skin color is okay. You are most certainly not an ally if you think a problematic racial descriptor is okay, because it makes you think of fictional people in a fictional country. Black Panther was not a documentary.

You’re a better person than I am for thinking he’s actually coming from a place of caring. He has disregarded these conversations time after time. Disregarded and deflected. You can still be well-read and ignorant, which is exactly the case here.

I do listen intently to members of the Brown Community whose intelligence and understanding I’ve experienced I can trust, like Janet Mock, Ta-Nehisi Coates and Bryan A. Stevenson, for example. I watch every insightful program about the Brown Community that I become aware, like the important PBS series about the Reconstruction era by Henry Louis Gates Jr. and Tarell Alvins McCraney’s David Makes Man series who also wrote Moonlight. No highly rated movie dealing with Brown History or their (our) issues sneaks by me unviewed and I feel so ASHAMED of my White Community in general. I cried when Cummings died I loved him so much and I wanted more than anything for Stacey Abrams to run for and become our President. So, to quote Miss Nancy P, “don’t mess with me” concerning my desire and ongoing efforts to become as WOKE as a White man can become, and I rejoice when people like Maxine Waters gains important leadership positions. Let me put it this way….I can’t imagine ANY OF THE PEOPLE I MENTIONED getting even the slightest bit perturbed because Chris was referred to as an Ebony Hunk on a Porn website, but I can imagine them giving some really serious side-eye to those who referred to him as ugly, Phallic Head and Mega Mind, as if he is some sort of monstrous, non-feeling THING. Especially the no-nonsense Maxine Waters.

Someone here has now written that the use of the word Ebony is SC’s way of using the “N” word covertly. So we have now gone to Silly Town, as I KNEW we would. Because of EBONY magazine that word has LONG been absorbed into society as a POSITIVE word of RESPECT and SELF-LOVE where the best of the Brown/Ebony Community was regularly featured in an entertaining, informative, celebratory, serious and educational format. That is just the fact of it. Ask anyone on the street. I agree with you that we need to avoid treating someone as “the other”. I don’t believe that acknowledging that someone has beautiful brown skin in a complimentary way is treating him as “the other”, and EBONY is a complimentary word. AT LEAST SC complimented him. AT LEAST they (and I) did. If SC made mention of the brown skin color of performers every time they were in an update then there might be a problem of creating “the other”. I checked through the last year and skin color was NOT mentioned as much or more than it was mentioned when there was a brown skinned performer. Does SC need to become more WOKE? Sure. We all do, and about much more than one issue. Are their write-ups brilliantly written? No. Do I blindly follow someone who I’ve learned not to respect or trust into one of his exaggerative narratives that then become only another obsession for him? NO! When he says “jump”, I do not ask “how high”. That is what Republicans do. I am not a Republican.

As a white man, I’ve found it most important to stop and listen in circumstances such as this. What we can not have, are white people telling people of color how they should feel or ask them to reconsider why they feel a particular way. What we can not have, are men telling women how they should feel or ask them to reconsider why they feel a particular way. That is a full stop, period.

From my time knowing you here on WB, I know you aren’t coming from a place of disregard or disrespect and attempting to trying and engage in a dialogue, but your technique raises the guard of a person who likely has felt unheard their entire lives. Questioning the feelings of a marginalized group is offensive. I am offended by your comments as a white man. They are tone deaf and I can tell you aren’t listening. You are inserting your experiences…which are quite frankly irrelevant on this topic.

It is our role as allies of people of color to support. You support by listening, asking questions to better understand a persons position, and advocating for their voice at the table. It is not our job to question why they are offended and defending the offense.

Again, I do not presume you come from a bad place, but that does not then forgive your ignorance on a subject. I hope you take these comments in reflection and you do not become defensive to them.

I had to shake my head reading some of the justifications which followed on this page. Disappointing. Not surprising, but still disappointing.

Oh man, two examples that infuriate me. We wonder why we have so many race hangups in the gay community. The marketing of micro-aggressions like those…I get so frustrated with my people.

This is why Mayor Pete isn’t resonating with more people. He comes off as one of those white gay men who don’t get the plight of people of color. Sure he says he does, but then he says stupid shit like “they just need more role models”. I’ll step down from my soapbox before I dig too deep into politics.

You are “GLAD”? Why would you be “glad” unless that is what you do and are “glad” to know someone else does too? Another typical 9 year old response. I have no idea what you would like to be when you grow up, if you EVER grow up, but I would suggest rethinking it if it is to be a comedian. Tehehehehehe!

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/7d8c72649a90c866a0ec9c36700df55a02fc047ef47ce7d04e47cc202ee964fd.gif

You obviously want to argue, debate and squabble over each and every sentence and I have absolutely no interest and definitely won’t make the time. I won’t be reading any more of your posts. There is no reason to since I won’t be responding now that I know your game.

https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/075230b080247d4381d6f7cd23502b9dcf1f23739f8e691c3fa7050bf330df9e.gif

As usual, you need to check your facts. Michael Jackson and Paul McCartney did not record “Ebony and Ivory.” But we all still await your next error–I mean, your enlightenment–regarding why SC never uses the term ivory–not seven times or even one.

Scrapple said that it isn’t that the word ebony is necessarily a negative one but that singling black models out for their color means they can’t just be they have to be… black. But a term like “All-American” which seems to be able to refer to anyone is never used for anyone but a kind of blond, white football player type.

Which, oddly enough, is not how the term All-American is used in sports, where it came from. Now, anyone with certain stats in their sport can be an All-American. Even women. But our casual conversation still keeps American a synonym for white. Asian-Americans and Latinx knows this as well as African Americans do. And so that’s the complaint. It isn’t the biggest deal in the world. But it is a deal. And it can affect a person who wants to work in porn or outside of it, or a person checking in for a flight or just trying to get home to her family. It’s all connected. We are talking about one part of a larger puzzle. Sometimes it’s just porn; sometimes porn has its own versions of problems that we see in the larger world.

I appreciate that you found… *repeated* uses of the term Ebony. You do know that something repeated could happen as few as two times, right? And you’ve found seven!–which you admit might not be a complete list. So, I don’t have to rethink my use of the term “repeatedly,” though you may have to review your understanding of all of its definitions.

I do find it odd that you don’t think there are a variety of European skin tones, but hey–your loss.You say you don’t prefer the term Black since few people are actually that color, but you don’t see the same inaccuracy with White? Strange. I think that as descriptions of complexion, each term is equally inaccurate.

Whether I agree with your posts or not, I do read them carefully if I am going to respond. I read them more carefully than you write them, actually–since in your desire to score points you twist, misuse, or flat out abuse the meaning of even simple words like repeatedly.

But, honestly, this was a slightly more thoughtful and humble post from you. No deflecting to Stacey Abrams, BLM, potholes, or any other issue you could come up with. You even acknowledged that you might not know what does and does not offend black people.

I appreciate a good two-thirds of this post. Baby steps. Keep going in this direction and I’ll be able to retire the Overseer nickname and focus on the good things you do here.

My mind is no longer on this topic so I just did not comprehend the first part of your post. It was all just a bunch of words that I read hurriedly and did not want to piece together. I think an accusation or two were there, but I don’t want to re-read it to check it out. In the last part of your post I see you want me to SPECULATE about SC. I will tell you want we KNOW. We KNOW SC hires people of color. Most have not returned and those who do are VICIOUSLY insulted. A really attractive newbie, who is a man of color, was in an update about 2 months ago, Shane. Will he return? We KNOW that if a person of color wants to return that SC will film a video with him, to then be VICIOUSLY attacked. Because we KNOW that SC hires people of color I feel comfortable guessing that not many apply. If they did they would be hired since we KNOW that SC hires people of color. Not many White men apply either, evidently.

Because I barely read the introductions I traveled back in time to see if SC routinely used the term ebony. Chris-YES Asher-NO Shane-NO Asher-NO Ace-YES Chris-YES Asher-NO Landon-YES Ace-YES Chris-Yes Asher-NO Aleck-NO Asher-NO Landon-YES Ace & Chris-NO NO Landon-NO Asher-NO Ernie-NO Chris-NO Chris-NO Maddox- NO Asher-NO. I did this hurriedly and may have missed some but I counted that a person of color was used 22 times this past year and 7 times the word ebony was used. In some cases skin color was not mentioned at all. So you might want to rethink the use of your word “repeadedly”.

Now I will tell you why I personally would want to acknowledge and compliment dark skin. I think it is BEAUTIFUL, and there are so many different shades and hues. White skin is just white or tanned. What can you say? But I get that I should perhaps make sure it is okay with the performer if I in some way gush over his skin color. I personally can not imagine someone being offended by the term Ebony, but it seems I should make sure first.