SeanCody: Shaw Fucks Curtis (Bareback)

Shaw Fucks Curtis (Bareback) at SeanCody

Shaw Fucks Curtis (Bareback) at SeanCody

Shaw Fucks Curtis (Bareback) at SeanCody

Shaw Fucks Curtis (Bareback) at SeanCody

Watch Shaw and Curtis at SeanCody

Shaw is quickly becoming one of the most popular models Sean Cody has and is really starting to open up.

“When I first rolled in, I thought this was interesting and new. Now I get excited wondering whom I get to fuck next. Its like a buffet!”

Curtis was fully on board too.

“He is for sure one of the hottest guys you have paired me with and he’s got a big dick. This should be fun!” Curtis was all smiles.

Once Shaw slid in, Curtis got off right away.

“He made me get off without touching myself. It’s those big dicks man, they get me every time.”

Watch Shaw and Curtis at SeanCody

Nelson Alger says:

A+ for shaw finally coming back, but clearly the powers that be at Sean Cody are clueless, the casting and camera work/directing leave a lot to be desired.

Swifty says:

Curtis & Shaw in a scene together?

Quinton Jackson says:

I’m here for this…

moondoggy says:

Shaw, hell yes. Curtis — you lost me for a long time, but that ass is just too built for this.

Best update in many, many months, I think. Pure pleasure.

http://ak-hdl.buzzfed.com/static/2015-06/29/9/enhanced/webdr08/anigif_original-2235-1435585850-10.gif

Loki says:

A Pleasure Principle gif… *right click, save*

Scrapple says:

A timely gif, given all the rumors about Miss Jackson (cuz I’m nasty) in the news recently.

Sebastian S says:

Best Janet video ever

*Gay Gay Porn stars* says:

He would rather be with a women than any of you men

Dale Bergman says:

Good! Let him be with his woman and he can get lost. He’s not attractive at all.

Quinton Jackson says:

His booty says different, that bitch can’t satisfied his hole like a nice warm cock can.

Ben says:

he did say he was bi, from the neck down, he’s into men sexually.

CA says:

When and where did he say that he was bi? I keep seeing that posted on here.

Scrapple says:

I believe it was said in his vid with Shane, but who knows if that was a prompted response or a valid one. The “neck down” thing Ben referenced is likely an amalgamation of what Dennis said in his solo.

CA says:

I’ll have to go look for that–thx.

1234 says:

In answer to your ques., you need not go that far back to Shane. Several updates ago (late 2015), Curtis logged onto WB & claimed that he was physically, not romantically, attracted to men (he said something about it being a neck down response). He also told me that he requested Landon at one point. Curtis commented on WB because people, such as myself, were stating that he was racist & he tried to refute that. He made a good point about Sean Cody not hiring non White performers

Loki says:

Unless he posted a picture of himself browsing WB on a computer alongside this response, I’m inclined to believe that was an obsessed Curtis fan or a Sean Cody website/community manager.

1234 says:

That’s a possibility

Scrapple says:

That’s news to me. I do recall someone claiming to be Curtis’ wife throwing tea bags all over the place.

CA says:

I just re read it, thanks. I have no reason to not think it was him….he seemed rather direct and unfeathered in his comments.

Also, he did make the neck down comment on that thread.

Scrapple says:

He apparently offends you, but you’ve got a pic from his wedding saved on your computer. U mad bro? Go ahead and quench your thirst.

Kevin says:

Why are you posting pics from his fb, he is not doing porn using his real name, he uses an alias.

Kevin says:

Btw, i think Waybig should delete comments that contain pics that commenters got from the model’s social media accounts and also the comments that contain sm adresses.
If you want them then ask a commenter if they want to mail it to you.

1234 says:

But you know WB never moderates this board, except if certain forbidden competitors are mentioned

Torrie says:

lol who cares? I doubt anyone here is dreaming about hooking up with him in real life.

1234 says:

STOP posting pics of his wife- I’m pretty sure she WOULDN’T approve! No matter how much you badger him, he won’t hook up w/you IRL. Live w/it.

kkdd1 says:

U R one FUCKING sick PRICK !!! posting pics of him and his wife on there wedding date is a morally bankrupt and SHITTY thing 2 do

Karnna says:

You spend too much time and brain power on porn stars lol

@FullyPumped says:

I’m with 1234, stop posting pictures of his wife. Just because he’s married doesn’t give you the right to find these online and post them. Dick move. Leave his personal life alone.

1234 says:

It’s the 5th time he’s done that w/the same pic. I undestand if you don’t approve of his politics, but leave the performers family out of it

@FullyPumped says:

Agreed. I can’t believe this picture is still up. Where in the hell is the moderation for these comments? I know that things like this really get under the skin of some performers and it gives the rest of us fans a bad reputation.

The Anonymous says:

i know curtis in real life

Brandon85 says:

What’s the problem with posting that pic? They put it on Facebook it’s not like he broke into his house and stole it. And who cares if he’s married he’s hot getting fucked that’s all I care about.

jag2power says:

I wonder how big her dick is because Curtis doesn’t take anything under 8″.

Cubankid says:

Awww Sean Cody actually does care about us, nice to see Shaw again. Curtis maybe a bit overexposed, but i’m always here for him taking raw peen up that hungry hole of his. Great way to start the new year off.

CF take notes.

Kevin says:

This can’t be worse then WG. Both of them look hot, Curtis looks cute with the new haircut. Let’s hope Shaw doesn’t have any wood issues.

1234 says:

I doubt anything can be as messy as the Winter Getaway

Kevin says:

That was a complete waste of money and models.

Ben says:

it can only be uphill from that disastrous getaway.

1234 says:

But I have a terrible feeling we’ll see more Sean Cody fake fucking for 2016

@FullyPumped says:

I make no secret of my love of Curtis, but his hair is super hot in this video.

Igloo Australia says:

http://33.media.tumblr.com/f094d266cda820eec540d507389cb50e/tumblr_nftsbkU6fX1rwhelko1_250.gif Let’s hope Shaw can stay hard this time. Curtis is always a reliable bottom.

Loki says:

Judging from the fleeting glimpses of his dick that we get in the preview, I wouldn’t count on him staying hard. And as the WG Finale showed, Sean Cody isn’t above flagrant fake-fucking now.

Joey says:

Yeah I still can’t believe they pulled that fake-fucking shit.

1234 says:

But that’s MG’s forte. Fake sex galore.

Torrie says:

Fake fucking lolol

Trepakprince says:

I love this duo. Come on in Shaw, the water is fine. 😘

Loki says:

I hate how fucking precious and delicate erections are in gay porn these days. For all his good looks, Shaw is useless to me if he can’t get it up. (And I’m so over Ginger-Josh-Hutcherson.)

Getting hard should be a casual, easy thing in gay porn. There are vids on Tumblr of the guy below, hard-as-nails and cumming without touching himself. Find guys like that, gay porn industry!

Ben says:

have u watched the vid yet or this just your assumption?

Loki says:

Did you see Shaw’s last scene? Hell, he barely got more than a semi in his solo…

Ben says:

I don’t know.. I really don’t see a wood problem in his 1st scene. I was actually surprised people were complaining about it. I mean he wasn’t rock hard but he was not “limp” either, I think. anyway who’s that daddy in the pic you posted?

Loki says:

His handle is “abayoujock” on Xtube.

Dale Bergman says:

His body and face make up for a cock that isn’t rock hard. I also LOVE his hands and feet (they’re perfect). I wouldn’t mind Shaw’s limp biscuit inside my buns…

Loki says:

Well, he wouldn’t need to do porn for that (which is my point). Maybe he has an IG or modeling profile…

CA says:

Yeah, I didn’t see these wood issues the few of you mentioned in his last video. Haven’t watch this yet, but I was more than satisfied with his work in his fist scene with Blake.

The man is hot but that make my balls hurt.

Loki says:

That’s one of the reasons I posted that pic in particular… he’s so HARD it almost looks PAINFUL.
http://45.media.tumblr.com/be1163e762823350dd5c951ce1d521e5/tumblr_nz5w9eIAk91skq1mko4_400.gif

Ben says:

I know haters will hate on Curtis. I agree, he’s overused BUT it’s with Shaw. It’s gonna be hooottt

Sask says:

A pleasure to see Shaw has returned. His body looks smokin’ in the pix. Pity they couldn’t find someone other than CurtisCody for the partner in his 100th (it seems) scene. But at least it should be better than the Christmas Train Wreck. Looking forward to watch it.

karlk says:

Christmas Train Wreck- doesn’t even come close to describing that waste of scenes for 8 updates! Anything will be better than that.

Nude Southern Boys says:

This was great, love these two!

ffviimidgar says:

YESSSSSS!!! More Shaw!!! Such a perfect man~

TalkDirtyToMe says:

Hell I love the longer hair on Curtis. It’s working for him. I’m excited for a coupling again!

Niftyguy says:

The fourth picture from the bottom is awesome. Dem shoulders!

Niftyguy says:

Seventh from the bottom also!

Clusterfuck says:

So overused Curtis gets paid to have a dick massage and rimjob from Shaw?!? WTF bizarro world is this???

Sask says:

Strains of the BeeGees singing “Tragedy”: “when the feeling’s gone and you can’t go on….” filter through the air. Maybe “travesty” is more apt for this affront to the natural order of things. Hoping against hope that Shaw wasn’t invited for a 3some with Curtis_wife as was Pete….

Dale Bergman says:

Who’s the guy with the rock hard cock that you’re referring to? I would love to have that sexy dilf inside my mouth and ass.

Loki says:

Whoa! I wasn’t trying send this comment section off onto a tangent. See my response to Ben (should be below) for the info.

He’s just a random Tumblr/Xtube exhibitionist – he won’t be appearing in porn anytime soon. If you’re into big-dicked and ripped DILF-types, might I suggest Tomas Brand?

Dale Bergman says:

Thanks for the information.

Mmmm, Tomas Brand is HOT!

pokok789 . says:

But whatever happened to Tomas? He has not been appearing in any scenes since last October.

Loki says:

He’s still doing porn AFAIK. He was at the most recent LE shoot in Athens.

pokok789 . says:

Great!! I can’t wait for his scene. Any news about another Lucas exclusive, Leo Alexander? His last scene was back in September 2015.

Dale Bergman says:

Shaw’s body is a 10/10 for me (I hope to see him sweat like he did in his solo video). He has just the right amount of chest hair as well. His face is also really cute. Curtis does NOTHING for me (not his face or body). They should have called this scene “Beauty and the Beast”…

Jazz says:

Another scene ruined by Curtis. His expiration date passed long ago. No thanks.

CA says:

Leave it to Sean Cody to fuck up Shaw’s return by pairing him with Curtis….can’t say I’m surprised.

Torrie says:

Just like Corbin Fisher did today by making Kyle bottom for Jacob of all people :|

1234 says:

WOW- that’s a felony!! Maybe Jacob plans on staying until he loses all of his hair

Torrie says:

LMAO seriously. He needs to retire.

1234 says:

I feel kinda bad, but Jacob was never a favorite of mine, even when he was at SC

Sask says:

At the rate it’s falling out, it won’t be long…poor baby.

whalewasker says:

why jacob ? poor kyle he a good top seriously!!!

my charlie good bye forever !!! he never return for sure!!!

Scrapple says:

That’s…unfortunate. First Luke, now Kyle? I’m not sure who elected Jacob to be the guy who gets to pluck these anal cherries, but I’m calling for a recount.

CA says:

I don’t mind Jacob, he’s not the nest top, but he’s okay and his body is amazing.

With King Connor dethroned and Harper filming EVERY scene, who else do they have to break in the new guys? Quinn does his fair share, but half of WB despises him for some reason too.

Scrapple says:

Jasper would’ve been the obvious choice, since I’m sure he knows his way around Kyle’s hole. If Colt or Kellan were around, I’d say one of them. Dylan may have been a good pick. Or Ethan, since he handled things well in his bi scene.

The fact that Jacob once again fucked up his bottom’s cumshot is enough to make me think maybe cherry picking isn’t for him. His parting shot was cool and all, but I’m still not feeling it.

Torrie says:

It should have been Dylan or Harper. Harper is way too hot to be stuck behind the camera!

Loki says:

Kyle’s the one with no ass, right? They made him bottom right out of the starting gate… couldn’t get it up to fuck a male?

Torrie says:

I’ll reserve judgment until I watch the scene.

1234 says:

WOW lolol his ass is non existent

Mihcael Davies says:

Ewwwwwwwww

Jazz says:

I agree. That was a travesty. Jacob is but a half step above Kenny.

1234 says:

Lke I said, I’m most happy Shaw returned. Even if he’s paired w/a mot undesirable person, I can block that person out.

@FullyPumped says:

I disagree, Curtis delivered three cumshots in this video, one of which was hands free. You’re not going to find another performer that’s as good as Curtis for a while. I’m content with him staying for a while longer.

DaveAtom says:

asgdgsadfgddgkjfvsagf
Shaw is just perfection. His body is truly a work of art. And I love his armpits.
Curtis is cute, but meh at the same time.

Target says:

Shaw: Always
Curtis: Never

how can we reconcile?

John Iii says:

Who’s this Curtis guy? LOL.. I like his skills but damn after what 40 videos now it’s time to find someone else. You can only watch someone get fucked for so many times for it to be enjoyable anymore.

CA says:

He’s like SC’s very own Johnny Rapid…who asked for that?

Mihcael Davies says:

Now that’s an insult even Curtis doesn’t deserve. Curtis is not prize but comparing him to human trash Johnny?? :O

Sask says:

Maybe MD below is right. So far, no reports of CurtisCody pulping Curtis_wife have been revealed, so he’s not yet descended to the depths of Mr Vapid.

CA says:

Ha, I know. I use the reference to compare their frequency of videos, not their spousal relations.

Jonny Marzetti says:

Nice surprise to see Shaw return.

freater says:

UGH fucking Curtis….

CarlA says:

Now that Shaw is over his first day jitters, how about Shaw and Daniel in a flip-flop scene……..that would be EPIC!!!!

1234 says:

Exactly- I want to see his hairy hole used, and his pits licked ;-) Someone needs to convince Shaw that it’s fine to bottom once in a while

CarlA says:

How about this too, Shaw and “Black” Chad do a flip also!!!! Chad topped Eddie, Blake and Tanner. It’s his turn too. So now we get a “comeback” from Chad and a bottoming debut for both he and Shaw……..Oh the possibilities!!!! Sigh ^_^

Ivan Jimenez says:

Or, ABE & SHAWN flip-fuck with each men cum-swapping!

Scrapple says:

I sometimes feel like every time nu dick enters the Sean Cody compound, someone flashes the Cock-Signal over Curtis’ house. The brighter the signal, the bigger the dick. Then Curtis decides if it’s worth his time to suit up, jump in the Botmobile and head over to the studio.

Shaw is still giving me Earth Girls Are Easy/The Fly era Jeff Goldblum meets Kevin Crows, and I ain’t mad about that. He seemed more at ease here, which is probably why he came off as more aggressive. I forgot he was a shooter. It’s a shame Marshall isn’t still around. A Marshall and Shaw scene would’ve been major.

1234 says:

Isn’t Marshall in prison? I may be mistaken

Scrapple says:

I know he had a record before he came to SC, and he went to rehab after. Not sure what he’s up to now.

elmtree says:

“It’s a shame Marshall isn’t still around. A Marshall and Shaw scene would’ve been major”

If only!

Ivan Jimenez says:

Shaw [the new Jarek] should bottom either for ABE or RANDY!

1234 says:

NEVER, hahahaha! Shaw is BETTER looking than Teofil

Sask says:

And he doesn’t have the attitude of the convict.

John Iii says:

The attitude was actually part of his charm in porn. That cocky top thing going

jinger says:

They can call him “the new Jarek” all they want, he ain’t got nothing on Jarek.
http://zing.waybig.com/reviews/SC/02-07-12/jarek-curtis-bb-seancody-01.jpg

kkdd1 says:

Shaw looks great Curtis on the hand would have been more palatable if the FUCKING had HURT like hell !!!

Alann6 says:

Great scene! Hot sex. Shaw is a wonderful top and Curtis can really take a dick. I can’t wait to see more of Shaw.

Sushi says:

Shaw is great.
That’s it.

whalewasker says:

i am so happy shaw return omgggggggggggggggggg

love himmmmmmmmmmmmmmm handsome man!!

Derek says:

Shaw’s body is hot (face is average) but once you see warts on his dick you cannot look through (it’s like Jayden’s birth mark spread on his ass). LOL really Curtis again in 2016? He is of course waste of space @ SC. I would NEVER pay for his porn videos.

@FullyPumped says:

Here here! The mods need to step in and stop this crap. When the family members of porn stars get dragged into this petty stuff it brings all of us down. It’s not fair and it’s downright shameful.

John Iii says:

I wonder if they use Curtis as a fluffer for the other scenes. Whatever that can be said about him you can’t deny he’s a master cock sucker and could get anyone hard with that skill.

Clusterfuck says:

too bad curtis didnt gag on shaw’s cock

what a waste!

Capello says:

Hot scene in spite of zero oral outside of the rimjob. Shaw seems to like intimacy when he fucks so we can hope he’ll be better and better.

1234 says:

Do you something that the rest of us don’t know? How do you know he’s from the Philippines???

Dale Bergman says:

And? Jet from Chaosmen usually cums three times in every video he makes… Get back to us when Curtis cums 7 times like Jet did with his scene with Vander. Unlike Curtis, Jet is cute as well.

I want an in shape Abe (who usually cums three times in a scene) to come back and give us a great scene.

@FullyPumped says:

I don’t know how Curtis isn’t cute? You either have impossible standards or we’re on two different wavelengths when it comes to what is attractive. Probably the latter, but I think Curtis is pretty damn hot.

Dale Bergman says:

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Curtis does nothing for me. The guy can suck dick really well, though.

Dale Bergman says:

Jarek only had a better dick. Shaw’s body and face is better (I found Jarek unattractive).

Jack says:

Lol best thing about this episode is curtis’s shirt. Very happy shaws back, even with curtis he is an alumni but i will say after his scene with ashton he was mia for a bit came back and his performances were just not the same, he had way more energy and connection with his partners and all his skills were solid. Now i just feel like hes all over the place doing whatever cause he can like making those unnecessary loud moans and noises idk but i wanna know what the heck happened with abe we get one scene of him and of brandon bottoming then never hear from them again hahaha how far u fallen sc.

Kevin says:

I honestly think Abe is not coming back. He allegedly was fired because he had gone back to do this one scene. He started a new job last week and he probably doesn’t want to jeopardize this new gig by doing more porn.

Jack says:

Wait whattttt how do u guys know this behind the scenes info. Damn that really sucks wish he would go full time but im sure he has other goals

Kevin says:

Shortly before they released his scene and they were teasing us about the comeback of one Sean Cody most popular model i checked out his employers website and he was no longer listed as one of their personal trainers. Someone on this blog said he was fired because of his porn past or because they found out about him filming his “comeback” scene. I checked out his fb about two weeks ago and he posted that was starting a new job.
If the reason for his firing is true then i don’t think he will risk getting fired again.

Jack says:

Ohhhh okay wow

SacsayhuamanAntoninus says:

MY BOO SHAW IS BACK YAY!!!!!! :)

CA says:

You don’t need to know you’re a racist to be one.

1234 says:

I can see that happening, even if that’s not what I would do. Corbin Fisher Smith is a good example- not racist, but really into “Dixie(?)”.

Torrie says:

lmaoooo stop. He’s skinny but I still think he’s cute.

CA says:

Everyone wanted a real life gay man at Sean Cody and here he is–even he’s not able to perform at the erection level of shooting porn for 8-10 hours.

Better call in the G4Pay guy if that’s what you want to see. 💁

GoGo says:

Are you just assuming Shaw is gay?

michael says:

Since when is Shaw gay?

Sask says:

I’d rather watch a hot gay guy like Shaw (my bet is he is a fellow traveller) any day over a hypocritical G4P ring-in like the pathetic Vadim Black who uses multiple chemical enhancements to maintain the elusive broomstick dick while apparently faking gay interest.. Shaw’s dick is a fine compliment to his uber masculine body IMO. I’d be happy to pay more money knowing my gay porn was not tainted by fakes.

JohnnyVooDoo says:

Shaw IS NOT GAY and you only ever see ED as often as it is on a gay porn set. Its always the G4P guys. No you do not see this happening as often on straight porn sets. Way more rare.

Jebus Waffleburger says:

It’s one thing to say that it’s insensitive for Southerners to cling onto the confederate flag as simply a symbol of the south, but I feel like the term “racist” should be reserved for people who actually harbor some sort of ill-will or feelings of superiority towards blacks and other minorities. The “confederate flag is our heritage” people might not be perfect, but it seems somewhat unfair and counterproductive to lump them in with the George Zimmermans of the world.

1234 says:

Please tell me why you think Shaw enjoys the company of other men. He comes off as (mostly, if not completely) straight

1234 says:

Off topic question: are you German? fellow traveller=mitlaufer

pangelboy says:

Ignorance isn’t an excuse or an explanation. And I find it quite difficult to believe that there is any significant population of people who don’t understand the racist history of the confederate flag given the very public backlash against flying it the country experienced last year.

CA says:

I can get into the psyche of a racist–which I’ve done before on here–but it can take days and I can’t relay to you a course I took in college in a few sentences here.

The reality is, if you fly an idol that people from a minority population, as well as, the majority of all people outside of that community find offensive and related to bigotry–you are certainly in your rights to do so. However, that action when done after repeated discussions where people inform you that the idol is perceived as a symbol of racism, marginalizes the voice of those people. The defiance to not hear the call from the minorities voice and the entire country’s populous indicates an inability to empathize with the special circumstances that the minority community had and does endure. As a person of privilege, that deaf ear turned to the requests to not fly such a symbol is nothing other than an attempt to assert power and dominance over that group with comments that simply boil down to, “I do not care about your feelings on the subject, mine are more valid.” That is what racism is–when you are the majority and you subjugate the voice of the minority to assert your own dominance and privilege ensuring your group has power over another–this can be the case even if you think you are doing it for the right reason. Most people during Jim Crow era law did not think they were doing anything wrong…the average white American did not think they were better than black people…they just thought the races should be separate. That was the whole Brown vs. The Board of Ed…separate but equal schooling. I do not think we could argue that those in favor of such laws were not racist.

Racisim is not always the dictionary definition. That definition simplifies and minimizes the term to only a “feeling of superiority”. That feeling does not need to be something you are aware of. To discount the struggle of slavery in this country to assert your right to fly a flag that universally is received as negative, is asserting your superiority over the feelings of basically ALL black people in this country…and the overwhelming majority of white, hispanic, asian, etc people as well.

There is little argument to the fact that the n-word is a racist term and those who use it have done so to marginalize a person–an aside, please do not make me get into a conversation about the modern take back of there n-word that now has a transformed suffix of “—ga”. Anyway…if one were to make the argument that the n-word is a legacy word that hold some historical pride for ones family…no one would buy that crap.

Like I said, it is a complex subject and I could write essays about it, but I’ll stop here.

pangelboy says:

Anyone who places importance in such a horrible and racist representative piece of history is participating in white supremacy.

CA says:

See above…I wrote a mini-novel with my opinions. lol

CA says:

Really? No way–my gaydar rings like church bells when he’s on screen. He reminds me of your standard Gym Queen you can find from WeHo, Castro, Boystown, Logan/Dupont…Chelsea, etc.

That and some deductive reasoning in his questions from the director(s). This scene for instance in the BTS, he’s asked if this was the first time he’s ever made someone cum without their hands on their dick. He thinks hard and replies, yeah I think so.

Obviously I do not know it for a fact, but what facts do we know about these guys? He was not as open about his sexuality as Sean was who then later took it all back in his MTV True Life story. lol

CA says:

I suppose. I’m assuming stuff like 90 percent of the comments on these boards do. See above my rationale.

GoGo says:

So it’s a yes, got it. I just figured maybe you knew something that we didn’t that’s why i was asking.

CA says:

Lol, that’s basically what I wrote above in a far longer rant, I should learn to be more direct like you.

CA says:

Lol, again, I wrote something far longer trying to convey the same thing–I appreciate your brevity…I should learn that skill.

Jebus Waffleburger says:

The thing is that from what I’ve seen, I suspect that many of the people who cling to the flag are doing so because they feel that they are being unfairly accused of being racist. If they’re simply ignoring explanations of how the flag is a hurtful reminder to minority groups, then yes, you’re probably right to apply the term rascism. The vast majority of opposition to the flag that I’ve seen comes in the form I see above: “If you like the flag you’re a hateful awful person”. A person who feels attacked is not generally going to feel compelled to empathize with the person attacking them. If you want empathy you have to give it. That may not be fair, but it’s the reality of the world.

1234 says:

Did you major in sociology back in college (yes, I’m being serious)?

CA says:

You are correct in those feelings generally–but in this applied instance, it is still a racist action by those who fly the flag. Why? Because it is a dominant group asserting a privilege over that of another. The need to show respect for the negative actions of the offender is not a thing when identifying racism.

I do get what you are saying though, that some are clinging to the flag to simply prove a point. That goal of proving a point is again racist. You trying to prove you are not racist by holding a symbol everyone thinks is racist is you again asserting your defiant dominance.

It would be like a man wearing a t-shirt that says ‘Women shouldn’t wear pants because pants are for men’. A woman says to him, “You’re sexist.” The man says, “No I’m not, its my religion.” Now the man starts walking around with the shirt feeling his religious beliefs were not respected, but the reality is….his religious beliefs are sexist and him defending them and maybe even his kids defending them because they don’t think they are sexist people and it is their culture, doesn’t matter…because it is sexist.

pangelboy says:

If you enjoy and defend your enjoyment of a hateful and racist representation of white supremacy…ya might be a tad racist. It isn’t such a leap of logic.

One doesn’t have to wear a hood to be a white supremacist. By envoking the symbols of those that wore hoods (it was the KKK that popularized the incarnation of the “rebel” flag used by modern day good-ol boys) people are reinforcing the legitimacy of that legacy of terror, violence, and theft that has been brought down upon black peoples and our bodies.

CA says:

Lol, sure okay.

Jebus Waffleburger says:

“The need to show respect for the negative actions of the offender is not a thing when identifying racism.”

True. There is no need to respect the action. But there is a need to respect the person if you want them to change. If you’re talking about George Zimmerman or Donald Trump for that matter then that gets a bit more difficult , but by and large people want to see themselves as good, and if you tell a person that they are awful because they like a piece of cloth, they’re going to cling to that cloth more not as a display of dominance but because letting go of it is essentially agreeing with your claim that they’re awful.

This isn’t an easy line to find, much less to stick to, and it’s not fair to have to struggle with it on top of the struggles that rascism and other forms of bigotry already create. But prejudice isn’t going to be overcome by simply denouncing anyone who displays any sign of it.

1234 says:

Thank you for a most thorough response. My problem is that I rarely listen to BTS because most of it looks like BS

Clusterfuck says:

Yeah that answer sent my gaydar on full flamer!

JohnnyVooDoo says:

Its all very true. The chances of Shaw being a gay are super slim — esp to be working main stream. And sorry but ED in gay porn being tiredly tired to G4P guys is a staple. Cant think of to many straight porn productions that suffer from this so often obviously as the gay side of things.

CA says:

Do you watch a lot of straight porn?

I think Straight porn pulls as many if not more tricks of the trade than gay studios do. The editing, short scenes, influx of lesbian activity in their straight scenes to give the guy time to chill. I could go on.

CA says:

I agree that it will not repair their racist ideal being mean or dismissive and not being respectful of them as a person. That is not what I was addressing though. I was talking about why someone who holds to the ideals of a racist past, is themselves a racist. We can discuss how to change those minds and ideals in another chapter.

This flag thing is ridiculous. Americans have a difficult time accepting when we fuck up. Be it today in Iraq or slavery–we fucked up. Therefore, we try to capture these moments of glory in those failures and worship them as the reality of the situation–that is the argument of those who love that flag. “It wasn’t all bad”. It was fucking bad….and not only the slavery part. They attacked the United States! They decided they didn’t like the laws and instead of using the political processes in place, they started a war. That would be like Texas attacking the county because they don’t like the legalization of gay marriage and they decided to finely push pack on the laws from the federal government.

The confederate flag is no different from wearing the svastika–that does not fly anywhere in the world without the person wearing it being branded a racist. It is the same situation.

Jebus Waffleburger says:

Actually there are people on the world who hold the swastika and are not generally branded racist for doing so, as they still recognize the symbol for what it meant before the Nazis appropriated it. They are at times held accountable for using it insensitively, but in my experience few if any people who bother to understand the situation continue to insist that they are racists. This is because we take their understanding of the symbol into account.

I argue we should do the same for people who cling to the flag, and obviously you beg to differ. To that I can only ask: Why? You seem to agree that classifying everyone who approves of the flag regardless of their intended meaning is counterproductive. So what is the use of insisting on doing so? The point of language is ultimately to communicate ideas and improve our understanding of one another. Why insist on defining a word in a way that serves to reduce understanding in an area that sorely needs it?

pangelboy says:

Fortunately, such benign ignorance doesn’t contribute to a legacy of hate and evil like the so-called ignorant confederate flag defenders.

pangelboy says:

Thank you. Your original comment made me want to contribute to the conversation. I’m glad someone else has a bit of sense in these comment threads.

CA says:

The confederate flag was created as a symbol to defend the values and principles of the south. The svastika had roots in Buddhism and Judaism prior to it’s more popular use in Germany. Allowing those to use the svastika for that historical positive use is different than what the flag was created for.

I think we can not and should not reclassify the meaning of the flag for the reason that I mentioned earlier about the revisionist history America is so popular for pushing. The Confederacy was a blight on the history of this nation–there was nothing good about their decision to attack America. To ignore that to allow some to make that war a positive experience serving as some sort of symbol of pride degrades the lesson we learned from the Civil War.

Jebus Waffleburger says:

It’s not a huge leap of logic, no. But even you put the word “might” in there.

To be clear, I neither enjoy nor defend the Confederate flag, and I understand the legacy it invokes and (though I’m sure not as well as you) the harm it does as a result. But this is much like the argument I have with other gay people about how best to handle homophobic Christians, and in a broader sense similar to a lot of what I see wrong with social and political discourse in this country. There’s a tendency to demonize the people we disagree with, particularly in these cases of prejudice and discrimination where one side is quite clearly wrong. But as justified as the anger and hurt can be in these cases, it often does more harm than good. Most people want to be good, but we all struggle, some more than others. Forgiving the misguided isn’t easy, empathizing with them even harder, and neither is fairly asked of those who are wronged, but I do believe we are better for it all the same.

Jebus Waffleburger says:

Again, I have no interest in reclassifying the flag as something noble. But this didn’t start as a debate about whether the flag has value, it started as a debate over whether it’s reasonable to call a person racist because they’re stuck on the notion that the flag means something innocuous. (Or perhaps more accurately whether you can automatically assume that anyone who holds up the flag and says it’s because they’re proud to be from the south is actually just prejudiced towards minorities).

pangelboy says:

The issue is that (some) white people can’t see the forest for the trees when it comes to discussing race and racism. So much time and effort is spent on creating a narrative around personal attacks, when most discussions of this nature should be more focused on the societal impacts of racist imagery.

White supremacy is so engrained in some people that they refuse to separate themselves from it’s power. I don’t think that coddling people’s delusions is the way to wake them up to the reality of racism.

Jebus Waffleburger says:

Don’t coddle the delusion. Just don’t automatically condemn the person holding it, either. That’s all I’m saying here.

CA says:

Right.

And I believe that if just about every minority person and the majority of white people think the flag is offense; tell you it is–if you decide that is not, you are ignoring the reality that it is offensive. That ability to turn a blind eye toward toward perceived symbols of bigotry and racism is in and of itself, racist. You are ignoring the global consensus of the definition of the symbol as racist. You are fighting the norm that the flag is racist. You are holding to a belief that something important to you is racist. That shrugging go the shoulders to hold what is important to you over the value of the nation and majority to support what we all think is racist…makes you racist.

I think we are back to the beginning of our conversation, so we will have to agree to disagree.

I think I’ve said before, that it is fine to fly the flag, just don’t be surprised or offended when someone calls that person racist for doing so. Why, because EVERYONE thinks that the person is racist. That is what the norms classifies the person as no matter how much they fight the good fight to prove they are not.

Jebus Waffleburger says:

Yes, we’be clearly returned to the beginning, as at this point we seem to both just be restating our claims rather than actually arguing them. But it’s been a fun debate.

pangelboy says:

I can definitely agree with that.